NLD-O Feedback Needed

NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby admin » September 8th, 2010, 8:03 am

The Forum needs your feedback and impressions about the NLD-Online (New Lakota Dictionary Online) for a grant proposal that would upgrade the database with audio files and other things.

• Please tell us about how and when you use it.
• What kind of value does it bring to your learning or work?
• What would you like to see the NLD-O do in the future?
• Give us examples of what you use it for and its importance to you.

Thank You!
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Joe Miyé » September 8th, 2010, 9:56 am

I love the NLD-O! :D It's so convenient to have an online version; I can use it wherever I have Internet access, without needing to carry the book around. It's going to be especially useful to me at university, because I will have to leave the NLD book in my room while I go to classes. (I can't carry such a heavy book in addition to all my classwork etc., however much I want to!). With the NLD-O I can catch up on Lakota at any time.

It's very good for looking up a word quickly, so it's easy to use when I'm in a hurry. Instead of having to flick through pages and actively hunt for the word, the NLD-O does the searching for me in a matter of seconds. Also, I really like that you can click on the Lakota word after searching for it in the English-Lakota section, and zoom across to the appropriate Lakota-English entry.

It lets me work faster, and I think its having audio files would be brilliant. It would make learning vocabulary much easier - not only would we be reading a new word, but we would hear it too, which would give us another cue to remember it by. We would be able to improve our listening skills as well, and repeating the word after the audio file has finished would show us what parts of the pronunciation we need to work on.

In a word, thewáȟila. I love it. :)

Tókša akhé,

Joe
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby NancyD » September 8th, 2010, 1:26 pm

Hi,

Joe summed it up very well. I can't add to what he said. I use it all the time and like it very much. :rose:
Tȟuŋkášilayapi tȟawápaha kiŋháŋ owíhaŋkešniyaŋ hé nážiŋ kte kštó.
“I helped the Lakota language by donating to the audio dictionary project. Can you help too?”
Donation Confirmation # is 841269.
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Jana » September 9th, 2010, 3:25 am

The NLD-O is the best online dictionary I am using (and have ever used) - and I am using many dictionaries for many languages.
Although I would miss my printed edtion very much, because it allows you skimming through all the pages in a way that is not possible with the online dictionary, and it also easier to search it for words you did not understand 100 % correctly (because you don't have to type them correctly) - still the online dictionary is the one I use most of the time because of it's great advantages.

Its two sides: One English-Lakota and one Lakota-English on one screen / one glance.
You can have one entry open on the English-Lakota side and at the same time the Lakota-English part to countercheck. This is simply not possible with the printed version - except if you would rip it apart, what of course I won't. :angel:

The words are connected.
You click on one word and have the entry for it visible in an instant. This is not at all possible with the printed version.

Both features together allow you to counter-check all the different translations for one word very fast - this would take much more time with the paper version - and much more post-it notes. :D
This counter-checking is necessary for getting the clear meaning of a word. Like in all languages, you will find many translations in Lakota for one English word and vice versa. To make sure which word to use if you don't know them yet, it is great to simply click on them and have the word displayed with many example sentences on the right side at once. If that was not the meaning I was looking for, I still have the entry open on the left side and can click on the next word then. This makes creating your own sentences faster and learning Lakota much easier - it is much more frustrating with other languages, where online dictionaries rarely have example sentences or different meanings explained.

Also, you can learn Lakota from wherever you are (with connection to the internet, that is) without taking the quite large and heavy dictionary with you. It makes regular learning and repetitions easier - also when you are on vacation.

What I would wish for the future?
Sound files would be great. If sound files for all the example sentences where possible - even greater! I am learning best by listening and I know many others do, too. This would make my learning progresses faster.

A lemmatizer would be very helpful because in the Lakota language, verbs change a lot when conjugated, and are then hardly recognizable for a beginner. It takes some experience to know what parts ccan/should be omitted and where consonant shifts could have taken place - and this way to find the correct root word in the dictionary. I guess this is something that is only possible in an online version in the first place - in a printed dictionary this would multiply the number of pages and the weight several times...

Better word recognition would be convinient. At the time being, the dictionary for instance does show you all entries with š as well, even if you did type an s. This would be helpful for words with variants of k and kh and kȟ, too. It would allow you to much faster finding them when you are not sure how they are written. On the other hand, this would perhaps make you lazy - maybe from the didactic point of view it is better the dictionary forces you to think of the kh and kȟ yourself ... ;)

And, of course, I wish that many more words and examples will be added to it in future. Apart from the ones that are missing at them moment - a language is on constant developement and so should the dictionary be.

Tókša akhé!
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Peter Welsh » September 9th, 2010, 2:10 pm

I agree with Jana, Nancy and Joe--
I use the NLD-O all the time-
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby NancyD » September 9th, 2010, 3:21 pm

Jana brought up some very excellent suggestions that I too would like very much to see added to the O-NLD! :)

Jana: What I would wish for the future?
Sound files would be great. If sound files for all the example sentences where possible - even greater! I am learning best by listening and I know many others do, too. This would make my learning progresses faster.

A lemmatizer would be very helpful because in the Lakota language, verbs change a lot when conjugated, and are then hardly recognizable for a beginner. It takes some experience to know what parts ccan/should be omitted and where consonant shifts could have taken place - and this way to find the correct root word in the dictionary. I guess this is something that is only possible in an online version in the first place - in a printed dictionary this would multiply the number of pages and the weight several times...


Well said Jana! :rose:
Tȟuŋkášilayapi tȟawápaha kiŋháŋ owíhaŋkešniyaŋ hé nážiŋ kte kštó.
“I helped the Lakota language by donating to the audio dictionary project. Can you help too?”
Donation Confirmation # is 841269.
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby John Vander Veer » September 9th, 2010, 6:23 pm

I agree with what Jana has said 100%. What she said is what I say.

John

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Taŋyáŋ láȟčaka ehé!
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Mary Many Feathers » September 9th, 2010, 6:53 pm

I too agree with all that Jana said. I use the online dictionary when i don't have my book at hand. I can access the internet from my phone and can look up words on the spot if i need to. Sounds bites would be awesome. I found out that i was saying some words wrong because i had not heard them spoken. Overall though, the NLD-O is a great tool.
Thanks, Mary
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Gerda » September 10th, 2010, 3:27 am

I also agree with what Jana said.

I'm very thankful to the LLC for their sharing the NLD online. Before it was available, I had to search for each word in the dictionary while working on the computer and I often thought, how great it would be to have a dictionary in digitized form. Now this is possible.

Whenever I am online and I search for a word I use the online dictionary. When I try to build a sentence, I can look there. When I hear a word, I can search for its meaning there. When I read a sentence and I discover a word which is yet unknown to me, I can just copy it, past it into the Lakota section and I will get the meaning. And not even the meaning as such I will get, even example sentences are shown. This is something very special and very helpful as well.

The orthography is such that it helps to find the correct pronunciation, but still it is not the same as to listen to the spoken word. Especially for persons who start learning the language, to hear the spoken word would help them immensely. So from the very beginning they would become familiar with the correct pronunciation.

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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Marek » September 10th, 2010, 4:22 am

Mitákuyepi,

What else can I say, I also agree with Jana.
The NLD-O is an amazing tool, I like it very much!
I'm sure that adding sound files would make the excellent NLD-O even more amazing!

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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Nina » September 10th, 2010, 7:11 am

Mitákuyepi,

NLD-O is my constant companion whenever I am reading or writing Lakota. When it was first launched, I didn’t realise how quickly it would become indispensable. As one of the older pre-computer generations, my allegiance was to reference books that I could hold in my hands but NLD-O has changed that forever. My hard copy of NLD (though still much-loved and well-thumbed) is no longer littered with sticky notes. With NLD-O I have instant access to both the English-Lakota and Lakota-English sections, including 3000 words that are not in NLD.

As a learning tool I have found NLD-O to be an enormous help. Because all the variants of verbs are listed in an entry I’m gaining a better understanding of verb classifications and usage. A simple mouse-click on an entry in the English section instantly opens its entry in the Lakota section where the example sentences help to confirm that I have chosen the right verb (or show me that I haven’t!) Perhaps a word within an example sentence is unknown. A mouse-click on that word opens its own entry and so the learning process continues.

A lemmatizer would be great! 1s and 1p forms are already given in NLD-O, and the grammar section in NLD includes conjugations for the verb classes so it could be said that a lemmatizer is an easy option, but I don’t agree with that. Once one goes beyond the basics and starts to incorporate multi personal pronouns the waters can get very muddy. So a lemmatizer would be a very important teaching tool, so that the right conjugation can be learned at once.

To have audio files available of the example sentences would be a truly amazing addition to NLD-O and of enormous benefit to students of Lakota. With SLO we have learned to read and write correctly, but for those who don’t have access to the native speaking communities a most important part of the learning process is lost. As small children, we first learn our language skills by listening, later we begin to speak, and much later we begin to read and write. So in effect, without audio we’re trying to learn Lakota back-to-front. Listening to the excellent sound files in the Forum, KILI broadcasts, CDs, are ways that help us to tune our ears but those all take a great deal of time and concentration, two things that in an online situation many people don’t have. And it can be de-motivating to listen for five minutes without understanding a single word! Being able to listen to one short sentence at a time (while knowing what is being said!) would be very encouraging. It would help to reinforce spelling because we would hear the unique Lakota sounds and notice the stress.

To sum up, NLD-O is an invaluable on-line learning resource. Together with LLC it is already leading the way in the revitalization of the Lakota language. Without doubt, adding the lemmatizer and audio files would be a major contribution to the mission.

Nina
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I helped the Lakota language by donating to the audio dictionary project. Follow this link to learn how you can help too: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=4005
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Brigitte » September 16th, 2010, 11:50 pm

Léčhel iblúkčaŋ, Jana na Nina!

Since NLD-O went online it really became one of my most important study aids and it is at least as important as the printed version for me. This is primarily because during my semesters I have to spend quite a lot of time at computers and so it is really useful to quickly look up a word no matter where I am.
A second advantage is it is highly up-to-date regarding the single word entries, for example concerning typos which occur in the printed version and which already have been corrected in NLD-O.
Of course the interactive screen is another attractive point.
What I personally miss every now and then is a function to switch back and forth between word entries I looked at in order to counter-check single words and their meanings.
But this is only a minor thing considering the great advantages and possibilities NLD-O is presenting to us. On that note I also don’t want to forget to thank all of you who have helped to develop NLD-O and set it up! I can imagine it was quite a bunch of work :)
Wóphila tȟáŋka héčha čha hé uŋ! :rose:
On a mule you find two feet behind, two feet you find before. You stand behind before you find, what the two behind be for.
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Kostya » September 17th, 2010, 1:54 am

Brigitte wrote:What I personally miss every now and then is a function to switch back and forth between word entries I looked at in order to counter-check single words and their meanings.

What about the history line, where the previously entered words should be stored?
Something like this:

Code: Select all
English [                              ]                     Lakhota [                            ]
(<- jeopardize - think - contemplate - visit ->)                 (<- okihi - lechel - iyukcan - echin - wachin ->)

the history line maybe could be made visible-invisible by some switching icon...
I helped the Lakota language by donating to the audio dictionary project (Donation #: 841496). Can you help too?
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Kostya » September 17th, 2010, 2:10 am

If you ask me, the NLDO would be more useful for active study, if it had some "semantic models" of the entities described in the dictionary. Sounds too technical, I'll try to exemplify.
Suppose I want to learn the word teepee. I type it in the English section , get redirected to tipi, then see the variants of translation, choose thiphestola, click on it and get the word entry for thiphestola in the Lakota section.
So far I get the brief definition ("traditional conical tent") and one example with the new verb "ethipi" (lived/camped at) as an example of word collocation.
The example has also thiyóblečha as a somewhat different kind of tent. Clicking on it I get the example with pawóslal iyeya "to put up (a tent)".

What I dream about is getting all the related to tipi words together in one entry. This means:
1. subtypes of tents ("hyponyms")
2. components of a tent ("meronyms") - poles, lining etc.
3. verbs collocated with this term (put up a tent, disassemble a tent, live in, "it is too smoky in a tent", "fix the windflaps" etc.)
4. any other info, maybe some idiomatic phrases or just set phrases (old tipi, new tipi, good tipi, bad tipi, tipi with holes, paint an ornament on a tipi, etc.) The more I can tell about a tipi, the more links in a "semantic net" it has, the firmer, deeper, and more active use of this word I have.

Much of this information could be done if we start building a semantic net out of the Lakota terms. Hopefully this subproject will start too.
I helped the Lakota language by donating to the audio dictionary project (Donation #: 841496). Can you help too?
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby NancyD » September 17th, 2010, 8:05 am

Hi Kostya,

I can't thank you enough for all the hard work you have put into the online dictionary. I read it for many hours during the day. :rose:
Tȟuŋkášilayapi tȟawápaha kiŋháŋ owíhaŋkešniyaŋ hé nážiŋ kte kštó.
“I helped the Lakota language by donating to the audio dictionary project. Can you help too?”
Donation Confirmation # is 841269.
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby NancyD » September 28th, 2010, 12:41 pm

Hello again,

I would like to add a request please to the O-NLD. :rose:

I noticed that many of the variants of a word cannot be found unless one knows one of
the variants to begin with. Please let me explain:

Let's pretend I was reading a Lakota text that had the word "maníŋtu" in it. I type in
"maníŋtu" and it comes up as *no match found*. However, when one types in "manítu", one can see that "maníŋtu" is a variant of the word to mean "wilderness, wild places, uninhabited regions, nature". I did not find "maníŋtu" in the hard copy of the NLD either.

Having the variant words in the O-NLD available would be extremely helpful to the student of the Lakota language. :)

Again, a very big "Thank You" to Kostya and all the other people who have made the O-NLD possible. :-V-:

Thank you.

:rose:
Tȟuŋkášilayapi tȟawápaha kiŋháŋ owíhaŋkešniyaŋ hé nážiŋ kte kštó.
“I helped the Lakota language by donating to the audio dictionary project. Can you help too?”
Donation Confirmation # is 841269.
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Re: NLD-O Feedback Needed

Postby Rolf » September 29th, 2010, 9:33 am

Mitákuyepi,

There is not much to add to what has already been said. I also like Kostya's idea of a history line, for it helps comparing alternatives and saves re-typing words that have already been looked at (if I understood it well).

What makes NLD-O especially valuable for me is that it saves my eyesight, because I have to admit that repeated changing from screen to book becomes more and more fatiguing as I grow older.
Tókša akhé
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